Oct 17

Query regarding Southern Cryonics investor membership

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I recently received a good question about Southern Cryonics investor membership and thought I would post it here.  I have edited a little for readability.  It may be something others are asking.

Question:

I note that you are looking for further “investors”. I am in a position to contribute $50K but would need to feel pretty secure before committing the funds. Does the $50K also include transport and standby?

If you are able, please provide as much information as possible and any legal documents that I may need to complete. As you advised earlier the cost of building the facility was underestimated. What guarantees can you give that the facility will be built this time round? If it isn’t is the money returned? Can you also discuss how Southern Cryonics will ensure its longevity. Many businesses falter after years or decades so this is another concern.

I replied:

Thanks for your note.  Yes, we are still looking for investors.  We are tackling the project very prudently and want to be as sure as we can of its success.  I may have written previously that my background is in long term planning, strategic planning, financial planning and major project “hands on” implementation.

Let me try to answer your questions and , as I hope I always am, be very straightforward.

Firstly, let me say there are no guarantees.    As I have informed all our investors this is similar to a business venture.  There is always some risk.  You will need to measure the risk versus the benefits.  I have my own money involved and feel very responsible to the investors so I am trying to minimise the risk, but it cannot be eliminated.

The $50,000 does not include standby and transport.  If you are in NSW this will be about $10,000 (in today’s dollars).  Add shipping by plane (and possible travel for those doing the standby) as you go further afield in Australia.

There are not really any legal documents except for simple application for membership.  I will include a copy of our constitution because the application says that you will adhere to that.  You would be a member of a non profit organisation.  Legally it is a public company limited by guarantee.  Basically this means that there is no monetary return on your investment.   Also any invested funds cannot be returned.  Of the commitment of $50,000 all investors have put in $13,000 so far.  As you can see we are calling up the funds as we need them.  The reason is what I mentioned before.  That once in, funds cannot be returned.  All this is in the constitution.

I can’t give any guarantees about when the facility will be built.  Because of many other factors (government requirements, timing in trying to find suitable land, priorities etc) we have been delayed and costs are higher, but I am not going to now “knee jerk” and proceed unless I am reasonably confident of viability.  I have a lot of experience in much larger projects than this and you can rush things now only to have major problems 5 to 10 years down the road.  I have some detailed modelling of our long term chances of success and will be only going forward when I feel convinced we are really ready.  No one call tell what will happen in the future, but I am trying to minimise our downside risk over the longer term.

In investing in Southern Cryonics (SC), you will need to balance the risk versus the benefit.  The same as others have done.  Let me give you some information which may help.

I am not sure of your age.  Say you are 40 and that you do not need to be suspended for another 50 years.  The following examples are simplified broad numbers, but they will give you an idea of options.

If you go with the investment in SC of $50,000, in 50 years you pay nothing more            $50,000

plus say $15,000 for standby/transportation with inflation                                   i.e. about $65,000

TOTAL COST  IN 50 YEARS                                                                                             $115,000

If you go with life insurance you will need to be insured for about:

$100,000 proposed current Southern Cryonics fee plus inflation                                    $438,000

Standby and transportation in 50 years                                                                              $65,000

TOTAL AMOUNT OF LIFE INSURANCE NEEDED                                               about $500,000

To get this level of life insurance will cost you an average of about $5000 to $6000 per year.  I know it appears high, but it will be something like $600 a year now (if you are about 40), but wait until you are above 65 years old.  It will escalate very quickly.  The $5,000 to $6,000 is if you want to lock in “whole of life” insurance at a fixed rate.  These are only my estimates.  A proper insurance broker will need to give you the real quotes.

If you cannot get life insurance, you will need to raise the $500,000 in 50 years time.  If you currently have $50,000 and can get about 5% return after tax over the 50 years, that will give you the $500,000 you need.  In a sense the $50,000 now is equivalent to the $500,000 in the future.

Of course if you needed to be suspended about 5 to 10  years after the facility is built, and were not an investor,  you would need about $120,000 to $140,000.   If you only have $50,000 now and no life insurance you will not have the funds.

The $50,000 is like a prepaid insurance policy.  It covers you at any time after the facility is operational.

Hope that helps.

Nov 14

Some questions on Standby/Transportation

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Some good questions were raised about what we are doing with standby and transportation.  I try to answer them below.  This is the summary I posted on the CAA site.  I will expand and update over time.

1. When do you expect to be up and running?

I am hoping for about mid 2017, but some of the items still to purchase will cost serious money, so it may depend on that.   Also there is some training etc.   Let’s say into 2017.

2. How would things work for those wishing to avail themselves of the services of this non-profit wing? A subscription model? Would this include both access to the thumper and use of perfusion chemicals?

Yes something like a subscription model, then a cost covering payment when the person actually needs to use the service.

3. How quickly could you get the unit to locations outside of Sydney in an emergency? Obviously in my case I’m most interested in Melbourne, but I’m guessing others may be interested in other locations… such as Perth.

We have a funeral director in Sydney who has some expertise and resources in many of the things that are useful to cryonics.

  • He is sympathetic to what we are doing.
  • He has strong links with specific other funeral directors in the major cities around Australia.
  • He has expertise in sending many deceased people interstate/overseas so he can handle paperwork/regulations/logistics etc. with minimal disruptions.
  • He has done at least one cryonics patient in the past that I know of but there could be more.
  • He has the Ziegler type containers for air transport of deceased.
The process will go something like this.  Let’s assume the patient is in a hospital in say Melbourne (it could be Perth).    We would need at least 3 days notice.  The funeral director says that we would usually have this.   Shorter times may work, but it gets increasingly difficult for a good final suspension.    Please also note that the below is really simplified and covers what we may consider a typical case.  We have looked at other scenarios, but let’s keep it simple so as to not make this email book length.   The below should give a patient a good final suspension.
  • Patient’s representative notifies cryonics contact or central funeral director (in Sydney) giving about 3 or more days notice
  • Perfusion chemicals (as medical supplies) immediately ordered from US and express freighted to central funeral director.
  • Central funeral director immediately works with his satellite funeral director in other capital city.   Ziegler, thumper, other equipment and stabilisation chemicals sent to satellite funeral director by express flight.
  • Satellite funeral director with equipment (and perhaps a private nurse, cryonics representatives and volunteers) is on hand at hospital when patient dies.  Obtains death certification and commences to apply various stabilisation measures.
  • Patient taken to satellite funeral director premises and brought to just above ice temperature (not frozen).
  • Patient air shipped to central funeral director in Sydney at just above ice temperature.
  • Central funeral director does perfusion and brings patient to dry ice temperature.
  • Patient sent to US at dry ice temperature.  If SSA is operational and patient has arrangements with them, patient sent to SSA at dry ice temperature.

 

Nov 10

Standby/Transportation Progress

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No, we have not forgotten about standby and transportation.   So where are we?

Let me give you where we are in point form so I don’t overload the blog with too many details.

  • Have been working with the US and UK cryonics organizations to put together the equipment and procedures.
  • Have recently purchased a battery driven chest compression system (Lucas 2) for about $9,000.  We have been searching for a while and found one in excellent condition at this very good price.  These electric models usually cost nearly twice this amount.
  • Now working to put together the rest of the major equipment
    • Ice/cooling bath
    • Temperature monitors
    • Inhaler or similar
    • Device to administer stabilization etc. medications
    • Stabilization chemicals
    • A container to hold the Ziegler box at dry ice temperature for shipment to the US
    • Perfusion equipment
    • Other miscellaneous items, including, based on information obtained from Dutch Cryonics, commercial refrigeration to store the perfusion chemicals
  • Regarding the perfusion chemicals there are essentially 2 broad categories:
    • The old style glycerine based chemicals, which have a longer shelf life (probably a few months), but are not so readily available any more.  This is not vitrification so destructive ice crystal formation is a real issue.
    • The new style vitrification chemicals, which have a maximum of a few weeks refrigerated shelf life*, but are more readily available from the US and allow proper vitrification before transport. Once vitrified the patient is however very temperature sensitive (temperature must remain at about dry ice temperature).  Obviously, for eventual local suspension storage this is not an issue, but it is a big issue for eventual suspension storage in the US because of the long transportation times involved.   See the next point.
  • Have now developed a method (inspired by UK cryonics and endorsed by CI) to expedite this transportation to the US, which will allow vitrification from Australia to the US with almost no timing risk.  Hope to have it finalized before about mid next year.  This means that the latest vitrification technology can be safely applied to patients in Australia for transportation to the US facilities.
  • Funeral director network for Australia-wide major city coverage has been identified, but need confirmation and training.
  • The best and lowest cost way to handle the standby and transportation is via a new non profit, which we will be setting up next year.

* I had been thinking normal domestic refrigeration at about 2 to 5C.  On 26 November 2016, our friends in the Dutch Cryonics Organization have informed me that if refrigerated at about -20C, then the VM1 solutions from CI can be stored for years.  This probably applies to the older style glycerine based chemicals as well.  Many thanks to Jappie Hoekstra for picking this up and letting me know.  All the very best for all the good work they are doing in the Netherlands and in Europe. 

Jul 18

Visit to UK Cryonics

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On May 10, 2016,  I visited with Tim Gibson of UK Cryonics in Sheffield UK.  It was a very wet day and Tim very kindly invited me to his home to see the workhorse of their operation, their ambulance.  The elegance of UK Cryonics’s set up is that it is simple and it works very well.  UK Cryonics does not have a facility.  While the large storage units of a cryonics facility always generate a “wow!”, the really critical step of any cryonics operation is the standby and transportation.  I don’t want to sound melodramatic, but it can be a case of garbage in, garbage out.   Don’t get me wrong!  The storage facilities and the people operating them are vitally important, but you need to get the first parts of the whole process (i.e. the standby and transportation) right otherwise your chances of a good suspension drop off rapidly.   My strong impression is that UK Cryonics has got it right.  Their focus is on the standby and transportation.  There is relatively little investment and costs because there is no facility to be built, manned, and maintained.  Because there is no facility you do not have anywhere near the same level of  problems running the facility itself, cumbersome governmental authorization and permitting requirements, or face complex legislative issues.  Obviously a few prerequisites need to be met, but these are not anywhere near as onerous as building and operating a facility.

Of course, UK Cryonics has some significant logistical advantages versus what we have in Australia.  Tim is situated in Sheffield, which is almost in the very center of the UK.  Because of the relatively small size of the UK (about the size and vaguely the shape of the state of Victoria in Australia) they can reach most locations within 3 hours with their vehicle.  A little longer and they can be in the western part of Europe.   Additionally, they can get to the two main cryonics facilities in the US 10 to 12 hours after they vitrify and bring the patient to dry ice temperature.

UK Cryonics members are typically also members of Alcor or the Cryonics Institute.  Remember that UK cryonics has no facility of its own. The cost of UK Cryonics membership is about $500 a year.  For a member standby, preparation and transportation to the US currently costs about $30,000 for the UK and $50,000 for the reachable parts of Europe.  Non members pay about $10,000 more.

So what does UK cryonics have?

Firstly, an extremely well fitted out ambulance. Unfortunately it was raining very heavily and I did not get a chance to take a photo of the outside of the ambulance.  If you are interested it is on their web site.  I did take some video of the inside.  The video I took shows how well fitted out it is, but my non-professional camera work may not do it full justice.  Take my word for it, it is impressive.  Additionally,  working with a strong network of local funeral directors, UK Cryonics have the expertise, equipment and chemicals to do a full vitrification perfusion to dry ice temperatures.   As I mentioned, the trip to the US is then about 10 to 12 hours. Using their special transportation container, combined with these relatively short travel times, the patient remains very close to dry ice temperature throughout the journey so the latest techniques in vitrification can be used.  They also have excellent links with Alcor and the Cryonics Institute allowing a very smooth transfer of the patient to the US facilities.  It is speedy, efficient and very effective.  Above all UK Cryonics has dedicated people like Tim who go out of their way to make sure you get a good suspension.

I would like to thank Tim for the time he spent with me. Tim has in-depth knowledge of what he is doing and approaches his cryonics activities in a very professional manner.  UK cryonics is in excellent hands.

Peter T

Mar 04

Australian Life Insurance Issues

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A lot of people are asking me about life insurance as it relates to cryonics lately, so I have decided to summarize the key issues here.  I have also received some queries regarding life insurance locked in superannuation and I believe that what I am saying below still applies, but I have not double checked it.

A few things I want to say.  Firstly,  I am not giving life insurance advice.  I am just sharing what I have learnt, particularly as it applies to cryonics.  Secondly, when I show dollars below they are very approximate from my findings and forecasting.  They are not meant to be quotes.  The final quotes would come from insurance companies and qualified insurance agents.  And thirdly, there are exceptions to what I say below, but they are usually costly.  I am trying to provide general information for simplicity.

Okay the simple reply is that life insurance in Australia is complex and is not very cryonics friendly.

The reasons:

The biggest is the type of life insurance offered in Australia.

I will have to do this by example with numbers to show you.

Suppose you are now about 30 years old.   The cost of a suspension with SSA will be very approximately $80,000.  Let’s say that you need the suspension when you are about 85 years old.   The cost for a suspension at that time, with inflation, will be about $400,000.

So you say okay, I’ll insure for the whole $400,000 now.  You may actually do it by staged topping up later, but for what I am going to show you it does not matter so let’s say the whole $400,000.

There are 2 ways to insure .

  1. Annual Stepped where the cost of the life insurance increases each year as you get older.  In our example the premium cost will be about $300 a year when 30 years old and then about $6,000 a year when you are 65.  It goes up quite quickly when you are older.
  2. The other way is Annual Level.  You pay about $500 premium a year from age 30 to age 65.  The amount is fixed through this time period.

Great! you say.  I will just get annual level. 

Here is the problem in Australia.  You cannot get annual level passed age 65.  From about age 65 it switches to annual stepped whether you started annual stepped or annual level.

Okay, you say, so it is annual stepped passed 65 years old.  I am still insured isn’t that right?.

But you hit the next problem.  At this advanced age the premium costs go up very quickly.     Past 70, life insurance of any type is difficult in Australia.  If you can get it, at age 70 you are paying about $13,500 a year.  At age 80 nearly $45,000 a year.  At age 85, nearly $80,000 a year.  In better words you cannot afford to continue your life insurance when you need it the most even if you can get it.

In the USA you can get annual level life insurance up to about 120 years old, which is more than adequate.   The premiums at an advanced age are much more affordable because it is annual level continued from when you started life insurance; closer to about a fixed $4,000 a year even when you are 90 years old and took the policy out when 45 years old.

A good way is to start being insured with Australian life insurance and then at the appropriate time switch to the US life insurance.  Getting US life insurance is not so easy for an Australian, but you can do it especially if the plan is to do it in the next 15 years or so.
As if that was not enough there are a few other problems with Australian life insurance.
  1. Not all companies will handle cryonics.
  2. Usually a policy needs to name the cryonics company as a beneficiary.  Not all companies will do that.
  3. Sometimes you need a split beneficiary.  Again not all companies like to do that.
  4. Sometimes the cryonics company may insist that they own the policy.  That is what Alcor requires.  Again very few companies in Australia will do that.

As I said, it is complex, but CSA can help you through all this.  Even if you cannot get US life insurance there may be other ways to finance your suspension at an advanced age.

Best wishes,

Peter T

Mar 02

Recent Cryonics Queries

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With the recent announcement that Stasis Systems Australia (SSA- our sister organization) is in the process of buying land to build a facility, there have been many questions, many of a similar nature. I will try to summarize here and keep the answers very simple. In some areas I am generalizing a bit to keep things short. If you want more details or how things apply to yourself, please let me know.

When will the SSA facility be operational?

SSA have recently exchanged contracts for a land purchase and will proceed with the land purchase subject to being granted Development Approval (DA).  A professionally prepared DA submission was made recently, at about the time of the contract exchange, but not yet approved.  If all does go well the land will be purchased in about April this year.  Purchase of the land is a major milestone as there were very many legal/development issue to sort out prior to this.  If all then goes well the SSA site will be operational in 1 to 2 years.  I know that this still sounds a long way off, but the people working this have put in a lot of hard work and there is a lot more still to do.

How much will it cost?

There are 2 answers to this question.  All the amounts are in Australian dollars.

Firstly, if you come in now as an “investor” the cost is a commitment of $50,000, $13,000 to be paid now and the rest to be called up by SSA as the project progresses, so that all the $50,000 is called before the facility is operational.    As an “investor” you get:

  • a free suspension with SSA for any person of your choosing when SSA is operational
  • coverage for a suspension for yourself with Cryonics Institute (if you meet certain straightforward conditions) in the US in the time period before the facility is operational.  So essentially you are covered from the time you become an “investor”.  With CI until the facility is operational and then SSA after that.
  • Say in the management of SSA
  • Access to CSA’s (Cryonics Services Australia) coordination capability and knowledge base essentially for free

Secondly, you can come in as a client after SSA is operational.  The cost has not been decided yet but it will be in the order of $80,000 which will increase with inflation.   For example, if you need suspension in say 30 years, the cost may be about $200,000.  Usually you take out a life insurance policy to cover this.  Have a look at other areas of this web site to see what that is all about.

On top of these costs you need to add something for standby and transportation, which would be of the order of $5,000 to $20,000 assuming you are in Australia.

I hope this gives you a short summary of things.  Again please feel free to contact us if you have any further questions.

Best wishes,

Peter T

 

Jul 15

Guideline plan for seniors

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In Australia, after about age 70, life insurance, the usual method of financing cryonics, is not readily available.  Accordingly, plans for cryonic suspensions need to be more specifically tailored to the individuals situation.  It is however, still possible to obtain a cost effective suspension with the right arrangements.

This brief summary by Cryonics Services Australia (CSA) provides some of the considerations that need to be addressed.  Just to recap, the role of CSA is not to provide these services, but it is to provide coordination and guidance as regards cryonic requirements.  In effect, like “one stop shopping”.   The final recommendations and arrangements are provided by qualified experts.

Cryonics Facility and Standby/Transportation:

  • The choices are for this post life insurance age group are essentially like those choices for most age groups
  • However, because of age, there may be a need for more emphasis on what is immediately available with less flexibility for future change
  • Immediate options include Alcor (US), Cryonics Institute (US), with the option soon of Stasis Systems Australia(Southern Cryonics).  Neutral Archives Foundation (although not fully cryonics) may be an option too.

Financing of arrangements:

  • Critically important for this age group, because life insurance is not practical or readily affordable
  • Many other affordable options are available, but must be specific to a person’s situation
  • These include: funeral insurance, superannuation, estate planning, joint accounts, reverse mortgages, fixed asset to cash management, loans, Stasis Systems Australia Full Membership, and others

Other considerations that may become more important in this age group are the setting up of very long term trusts to make funds available after potential revival in the future.

Let me know if you would like a free plan set up for your specific situation.

Regards,

Peter T

Jul 15

Template Plan for Client in Mid 30s

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The following is a template plan for someone interested in cryonics and is in their mid 30s.   Please note that it is in some ways generalized so if you wish a more specific plan tailored to your situation, please let me know.  Preparing the plan is for free.

TEMPLATE PLAN FOR CLIENT AGED MID 30’s

ACTUAL PLANS TAILORED TO INDIVIDUAL’S SPECIFIC SITUATION

Dear ABC,

Re: Plan for Cryonics services

Thank you for your interest in the services Cryonics Services Australia Pty Ltd provides. I am pleased to construct a plan for your cryonics needs. I need to provide the caveat that neither I nor Cryonics Services Australia, who I represent, are providing financial, insurance, legal or any other similar services advice or specific products. All these will be provided by licensed qualified specialists. I am coordinating these services for your cryonics needs. Also, the numbers/amounts shown in this letter and its attachments for these services are approximate numbers based on my experience. The actual quotes will be provided by the qualified specialists. Unless otherwise stated the dollars are Australian dollars as applicable in 2015.

In the process Cryonics Services Australia uses, this plan is step 1. Our review of this plan is step 2 and the actual implementation is step 3. There is no fee from Cryonics Services Australia for steps 1 and 2. For step 3 there will be fees from Cryonics Services Australia and some of the service providers. For Cryonics Services Australia, the fee will depend on what services you desire Cryonics Services Australia to coordinate and I can give you an approximate idea of these fees in this document. Also, I can provide approximately what the fee will be for the professional service providers, but the actual will depend on their fee structures. Please feel free to contact me if this is not clear.

The details you have provided me are:

Name: ABC

Address: XYZ

Gender: Male/Female

DOB: Age mid thirties

Email: Email@email.com

Other information: Good health

Your Objective:

To be cryonically suspended by a professional cryonics organization upon your legal death and to have the funds available to do this.  To have adequate standby/transportation coverage to enable transportation to the cryonics facility. To put aside an amount of the order of $50,000 (in 2015 $) upon death for a long term trust to provided funds at the time the possible reanimation. You fully understand that there are no guarantees in cryonics and, in particular, eventual revival after suspension is not guaranteed.

Quick Summary:

You will see in this plan that you can be fully covered for all aspects of a professional cryonics suspension for a cost of about $560 a year ($46 per month or about $1.53 a day), mainly for life insurance.   If you do not wish to set it all this up yourself because of all the complications it may involve, and want to use Cryonics Services Australia to professionally set it all up for you, there is an up front fee of $600 plus the same $560 per year.

Your Plan:

Cryonics Organization

At your age it is unlikely you will need a suspension for many years so you have several options. I will summarize a few here with my recommendation for the best at this stage of your life.

At this relatively young age the costs are relatively low to enter cryonics.   Assuming your health is good, you are readily insurable for a low cost; of the order of a few hundred dollars a year to get a few hundred thousand dollars coverage. I will cover more about this later in the section discussing life insurance.

Currently Alcor and the Cryonics Institute, both in the US, are the only reasonable options for a cryonics organization. Assuming a neuro (head only) for Alcor and a full body suspension for Cryonics Institute, the costs are about $130,000 and $45,000, respectively, payable at the time of your suspension.  Both these charges are for suspension and storage only. You basically have to get to the facility door in the US, so you need to add standby (professional preparations at your hospital bed) and transportation (the preparations before and the actual transportation to the cryonics facility). This is covered later in the plan.

At a later stage, when Stasis Systems Australia (the soon to be built Australian cryonics facility, which will be operating under the name Southern Cryonics) is operational, you will have an added option of a suspension in Australia at a cost of about $80,000 (payable at the time of your suspension), again based on the patient getting to the facility door, i.e. you still need standby and transportation, but obviously cheaper because the suspension is in Australia.

All these costs are usually paid for by life insurance which is discussed later in this plan.

Before expanding on these possibilities further, there is a another option with Stasis Systems Australia you may wish to consider. That is to become a Stasis Systems Australia Founding Member now. A Founding Member invests funds of $50,000 before the facility is operational to help with the development of the facility. Yes, this is a large sum of money, which needs to be paid before the facility is running so it is obviously not for everyone. But there are benefits. For the $50,000 you get one free suspension for yourself or anyone of your choice, at any time after the Stasis Systems Australia facility is operating. If the suspension is for someone else, this cost of $50,000 compares very favourably with the full client cost of about $80,000, which will apply after Stasis Systems Australia is operational.   If the suspension is for yourself and you need a suspension in say 50 years time, an Alcor suspension (neuro), a Cryonics Institute suspension, and an Stasis Systems Australia normal client suspension will very approximately cost about $570,000, $200,000, and $340,000 respectively at that time, whereas the Founding member’s offer is locked at the original $50,000 you had already contributed.   This $50,000 again compares favourably with these other options, especially when you adjust for time-value of money and take into account life insurance premiums you would have had to pay over 50 years to cover these much higher costs of suspension at that time.

Once more, this is not for everyone, but if you are interested in this exciting development please let me know and we can discuss further. For the rest of this plan I will assume you do not take up the option of being a Founding Member of Stasis Systems Australia, although you may still wish to be a normal client of Stasis Systems Australia after they are operating.

As of now, I would recommend going with the Cryonics Institute option at about $45,000, as mentioned previously. It is the lowest cost option currently available even though you still need to be transported to the US.   Cryonics Institute also charges fees of about $160 a year for membership.

When Stasis Systems Australia is up and running you may wish to review their capabilities and become a client of theirs thereby being suspended in Australia. As I mentioned before, their fees to you as a client, would be of the order of $80,000, payable at the time of your suspension, excluding the cost of standby and transportation. It is a viable future option and we can discuss the possibility of you shifting to Stasis Systems Australia when they are operational.

This overall recommendation should be revisited every ten years or when your situation materially changes. At a later stage in your life, you may wish to make further decisions about other cryonics needs and which organization to use.

Standby and Transportation

Standby/Transportation is a very important consideration, particularly if you are to be suspended overseas, but even standby/transportation to the Stasis Systems Australia facility (when it is operational) has costs.   For Cryonics Institute and Stasis Systems Australia, the actual standby, stabilization, preliminary perfusion and transportation will be conducted by a recognized Australian funeral home with the training, experience and capability to handle this professionally.  Alcor has their own standby/transportation processes. As the recommendation focuses on using Cryonics Institute, then at a later stage, possibly Stasis Systems Australia, I will not discuss Alcor, but if you wish more information please let me know.

For a Cryonics Institute suspension, the standby/transportation fees will range from about $28,000 to $50,000 depending on a number of factors including whether you seek simple perfusion or full pre-vitrification perfusion (not available yet in Australia) and your location.   Cryonics Services Australia coordination, should you wish it, will be about $4,000.   When Stasis Systems Australia becomes operational this standby/transportation fee will be about $10,000 to $25,000 for the funeral home plus about $2,000 for Cryonics Services Australia coordination, should you wish it.

Documentation

I would recommend you obtain Cryonics Institute membership. The documentation is quite onerous so Cryonics Services Australia can process this for you at a fee which is included in its costs for handling other initial arrangements, or you can simply do yourself.   The other document I would recommend is to have your next of kin sign a document confirming agreement with your intention to be suspended.   Even though you become a member of Cryonics Institute, you can always change your mind at a later stage and shift to another cryonics organization.

Long Term Trust

These may not be applicable to you now, but I am including the below for completeness.

Long term Trusts are to put money aside for the time of your potential revival in the future. The trust will be established with a recognized independent trust organization. This may mean directing the funds through your Will or life insurance to the trust organization or it may mean directing your funds to a non profit organization or a trusted relative to set up the trust for you. Also Cryonics Services Australia may, with professional legal assistance, help you arrange your Will to reflect this.

Having said the above to provide you with some perspective of what is available, with your current relatively young age, I would recommend it is too early to consider these Trusts for yourself. At some future point in time we could discuss long term Trust arrangements for yourself.

Life Insurance

There are many financial vehicles that may be used to finance your future suspension. Because you are at an age and assumed health that can be readily insured, we would recommend, as previously mentioned, life insurance. I won’t go into all the complications of life insurance with you as these really start arising when you reach your fifties.   Suffice it to say, you should probably be insured for about a $300,000 payout. This will require a premium of less than $400 a year, depending on the structure. We can investigate this with life insurance professionals to get the best rate applicable to you and determine “sweet spots” for later changes of policy structures.   All this may not mean much now. We can discuss it, but it not so critical now and becomes a lot more critical for you as you become older; certainly past about 45 years of age, when insurance premiums start to escalate.   We will, of course, discuss all this with a life insurance professional and receive accurate quotes, if you decide to go ahead.

The $300,000 payout should be adequate to cover you over the next 10 years for a Cryonics Institute suspension, Standby/transportation, some inflation effects and some funds for a Trust set up at a later stage.   We can review again in 10 years. Also, if you change to the Stasis Systems Australia facility in that time, the $300,000 payout is still applicable.   Please note that at your age, policies of less than about $300,000 pay out are usually not available because the yearly premiums are so low that life insurance organizations do not think they are worthwhile.

Recommendation Summary

So that you have a framework of what is available I have provided a wide range of options in each of the areas, with some recommendations.

In summary, I would like to recommend that for now you obtain a Cryonics Institute cryonics suspension arrangement.   In addition, to have arrangements available through Cryonics Services Australia or separate arrangements, if you do not wish to use Cryonics Services Australia, for adequate standby and transportation. To finance this I would recommend taking out life insurance with a payout of $300,000, which will both cover your immediate and your foreseeable future cryonics needs. At some point, when Stasis Systems Australia is up and running, to evaluate if you wish to shift your arrangements to Stasis Systems Australia. I would also recommend to not consider long term trusts at this time.

At the very minimum to again review this whole plan every 10 years.

Summary of Costs

Although it may not be your ultimate intent to be suspended with Cryonics Institute, by following this plan, you have arrangements in place immediately with flexibility on future options at a minimal cost.   You will have a relatively low cost life insurance policy with the financial capability to use Cryonics Institute or whoever you wish, including transportation to the US. This satisfies your current needs. Additionally, the amount of your life insurance provides you with ample scope to shift to other options in the future, including shifting to Stasis Systems Australia when they are operational.

Estimated Upfront Costs
Cryonics Services Australia fees $600 If desired for Cryonics Services Australia to set up life insurance, documentation/administration with Cryonics Institute, and other administration requirements. You may of course do this yourself and save these fees.
TOTAL $600 One time.
 
Estimated Ongoing Costs per year
Life Insurance $400 For payout of $300,000
Cryonics Institute membership $160
TOTAL $560 Per annum
   
Estimated Costs at Time of Suspension   This is likely far in the future, but this gives an indicative amount in 2015 dollars
   
Cryonics Institute Suspension costs $45,000 Covered from $300,000 life insurance.   Will be $80,000 if later switch to Stasis Systems Australia
Standby/transportation costs to Cryonics Institute $40,000 Handled by Australian funeral home with professional experience in cryonics. They would quote actual rates. May vary depending on location of your demise within Australia. Must be prearranged. Covered from $300,000 life insurance. Cost will be $15,000 if later switch to Stasis Systems Australia.
Cryonics Services Australia coordination $4,000 Cryonics Services Australia coordination if desired. Depends on location and type of coordination required. Must be prearranged. Covered from $300,000 life insurance.
Balance to provide flexibility in arrangements and possible cost increase buffer because your likely suspension is far in the future. Also, may be used for long term trusts at some future time. $211,000 See comment below for “TOTAL”. Covered from $300,000 life insurance.
   
TOTAL $300,000 As you see from the large balance amount, there is some flexibility in this amount, but at your age, life insurance organizations do not typically insure for less than about $300,000

 

 

 

 

Mar 28

Example of CSA cryonics plan

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I have now developed plans for several clients.  To give you an idea of what CSA does, the following is an example plan.  As discussed in a previous blog and also mentioned below, the development of this plan for your specific case is free.

 THIS IS AN EXAMPLE PLAN                                   

THE ACTUAL PLAN IS TAILORED SPECIFICALLY FOR EACH CLIENT                                 

Dear Mr ABC,

Re: Plan for Cryonics services

Thank you for your interest in the services Cryonics Services Australia Pty Ltd (CSA) provides.  I am pleased to construct a plan for your specific cryonics needs.  I need to provide the caveat that neither I nor CSA, who I represent, are providing financial, insurance, legal or any other similar services advice or specific products.  All these will be provided by licensed qualified specialists.  I am coordinating these services for your cryonics needs.  Also, the numbers/amounts shown in this letter and its attachments for these services are approximate numbers based on my experience.  The actual quotes will be provided by the qualified specialists. Unless otherwise stated the dollars are Australian dollars.

You will note that the plan may be set up for upfront fees from about $600 and ongoing fees of $650 to $850 a year, mainly for life insurance.

If you recall the process I outlined for you, this plan is step 1.  Our review of this plan is step 2 and the actual implementation is step 3.  There is no fee from CSA for steps 1 and 2.  For step 3 there will be fees from CSA and some of the service providers.  For CSA, the fee will depend on what services you desire CSA to coordinate and I can give you an approximate idea of this fee in this document.  Also, I can provide approximately what the fee will be for the professional service providers, but the actual will depend on their fee structures.  You are under no obligation to proceed to step 3.   Please feel free to contact me if this is not clear.

THE DETAILS YOU PROVIDED TO ME:

Name: ABC

Address: xxxxxxxxxx

Gender: Male

DOB: early 1960’s (age early 50’s)

Email: xxxxxxxxx@xxxxx.com

YOUR OBJECTIVE:

To be cryonically suspended by a professional cryonics organization upon your legal death and to have the funds to do this.  Additionally, to have adequate funds at the time of your possible deanimation.  You fully understand that there are no guarantees in cryonics and, in particular, eventual revival after suspension is not guaranteed.

YOUR PLAN:

Cryonics Organization

I would recommend using Cryonics Institute (CI) in the USA at this time.  They have the lowest cost structure and it is easier to change your mind later.  The reason you may want to change your mind is that Stasis Systems Australia (SSA) in Australia may be a more desirable option for you when they are operational.  This could be about 2 years or so in the future.

Current costs at CI: US$35,000 for a suspension.  This does not include standby or transportation. You do not pay this now.  This will be paid for through life insurance or similar financial vehicles.  Please note this is the current amount so we need to work out what you may need in the future.  We will do that in the section on life insurance.

Current ongoing costs at CI: US$195 member fee for the first year, then US$120 a year there after.  You pay this after joining this organization.

CSA would complete all the CI documentation (some is quite complex) for you and explain it to you before submitting to CI.  You may, with the appropriate notice, cease your agreement with CI at any time.  This gives you flexibility for the future if you wish to change to another organization.

Long Term Trust (Note that this is not necessary, but included for completeness)

This is to put money aside for the future.  We would recommend putting about $50,000 aside for this Trust.  You do not pay this now.  The Trust will be established with a recognized independent Trust organization.  We would recommend the Trust be set up for 300 years.  The time limitation is important to let the trust meet its objectives.  Should you not be revived before 300 years the funds will go to your charity of choice.  We can discuss this more when we discuss the Trust arrangements.  You also mentioned that you would like your estate upon death to go to the Trust.  We can, with legal assistance, arrange your Will to reflect this.

Cost to Establish Trust: Using the CSA template trust agreement the costs will be from about $5,000 paid in legal and other fees now to set up the trust.  You may veer from the template trust agreement, but the legal costs can start to mount very quickly.  We recommend staying with the standard trust deed, which will be explained to you.

Base amount to put in the Trust:   We recommend life insurance to cover $50,000 to be put in the trust.  Please note this is the current amount so we need to work out what you may need in the future. We will do that in the section on life insurance.

Additional Amount to put in the Trust:   You indicated you would like some or all of your estate funds to go to the trust upon your death.  We will need to have a lawyer make the necessary provisions in your Will.  If there are no complications this will cost less than $500 to change your Will.

Life Insurance

There are many financial vehicles that can be used to finance your future suspension. Because you are at an age that can be insured, we would recommend life insurance at this stage.  The best life insurance for your case would be a fixed annual premium life insurance until death.  Unfortunately it is not readily available in Australia. It is however, available in the USA.

At your current age, the plan would be for you to initially take out Australian life insurance.  If, in the next say three years, you traveled to the US this would be switched to US life insurance.

Stage 1

Australian life insurance for about 3 years.

We would recommend a policy for about $150,000.  Please note that a qualified life insurance broker will make the final assessment.  This would be made up of the following beneficiaries:

Cryonics Suspension    $45,000 (about US$35,000)
Long Term Trust    $50,000
Fees for Transportation and standby    $45,000
Other    $10,000
TOTAL $150,000

The cost of this life insurance policy would be approximately $500 per annum in year one, growing to about $700 per annum in year three.  Please remember these are approximate and do not take into account your specific situation.  A licensed life insurance broker will provide a detailed quote should you move forward with this plan.

Stage 2

During this time period we would discuss and evaluate the benefits of obtaining US life insurance.  You have to visit the US to do this, but you could be a tourist in a hotel.  We would make the arrangements with our contacts in the US.  Because this will be at a fixed premium rate per annum and will apply for your whole life time the recommendation will be for a much higher amount payout to allow for inflation in the costs of the services and other requirements, some of which we already covered and others you may wish to consider, which we will discuss with you.  We would recommend a policy of about US$250,000.   Depending on the age you take out this policy, the premiums will be fixed at about US$2,000 a year(assume age about mid 50’s), but this premium is fixed until end of life and usually it is self funding after age 90.  As a comparison example, if you were taking out Australian life insurance, which increased every year, the premium at about age 80 for a $250,000 pay out policy would be about $35,000 a year and continue to steeply climb every year.

Summary of Costs

Estimated Upfront Costs
Setting up Trust from $5000 Includes initial trust fees, lawyers fees (Trust and Will) for template trust. Not necessary if do not wish a Trust set up)
Cryonics Organization $250 Cryonics organization US$195 in A$
CSA fees $600
TOTAL $850 (excluding Trust)
 
Estimated Current Ongoing Costs
Life Insurance $500 to $700 Yearly cost while using Australia life insurance for say 3 years. You may use Australian life insurance for longer than this but you need to determine a transition plan in your late 50s, otherwise the Australian insurance starts to become expensive. CSA can help at that stage.
Cryonics Organization $150 US$ 120 a year in A$
TOTAL $650 to $850 A year

CSA is also planning on offering, for a subscription fee of around $200 a year, ongoing advice as your situation changes and a range of other services.  These can be discussed with you if you are interested.

Peter Tsolakides

Cryonics Services Australia Pty Ltd

Mar 27

Cryonics standby responsibilities

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I am getting close to finishing the standby and transportation processes, which have been drawn heavily from the practical work done by Alcor, CI and the UK cryonics organization.  I have however, restructured the material to be consistent with our setup and requirements in Australia.  The below is a snapshot of part of the manual to give you a feel of the methodical approach I am taking.  You will note that each of the participants has some level of involvement.  There are four key roles however, for handling the standby and the transportation.  These are the Cryonics Coordinator, the Local Non professional, the Local Professional and the Central Professional.

Each will have a carefully defined role and will have the training to perform that role.  I am working on that now.  Please note that some of these services may not be available at all locations.   For example, there may not be a Local Non professional in your area.  The below plan does have secondary coverage for this.

A bigger problem is that you may live in a remote area.  There is no simple coverage for this.  I know this sounds drastic, but I would recommend being in an area that can be better administered.  Talk to CSA about how well your location may be serviced.

“Hey Peter,” you may say to me, “There is an awful lot here to try to remember”.  “How can anyone do all this, especially when they may be ill or be depending on family to get it done?”

You do not have to remember any of this.  If you have made formal pre-arrangements with CSA, all you or your representative need to do is call the CSA Cryonics Coordinator.  Everything will swing into motion.  There may be other groups that may be able to offer this service too.

It’s like everything in cryonics though.  If you leave it all to the last minute, nothing gets done.  You have to have made those pre-arrangements.   CSA’s role is to make all easy.   To do all this there are costs, mainly to the funeral homes, which CSA can assist is explaining how you can provide for these.   I outlined all this in a previous blog on standby/transportation costs. 

standby no1a

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

standby no2standby no3b